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1. swiggy
   Member

   Hi, about 2 years ago now i hit a reef fairly hard and kind of jerked my lower back, was fairly painful but not that bad, i.e. i could still get in over the slippery rocks without too many expletives haha. so i didnt surf the rest of the day, after a nights sleep it felt a bit better so i went surfing again and it wasnt too bad, a little bit sore but i still surfed ok. then it just never really went away, never enough to stop me doing anything but always a little bit annoying.

   surfing doesnt really seem to make it worse, although im not sure whether thats partly wishful thinking. It has gone away from time to time, when i was in indo for 2 months surfing all day every day i completely forgot about it, soon as i came back to the cold it came back again.

   ive been to a physio here and he said i tore the muscle originally and it has just healed as slightly stiff scar tissue, so that vertebrae isnt moving correctly, but it isnt really anything to worry about, just keep stretching it? he also said because im so flexible that the other vertebrae are making it up for it by moving more, surely this isnt good for when i get older? i cant afford 40 quid a time to keep going back, the nhs wont do anything because i can still run/play football/surf etc, i need to be crippled before the nhs will help.
   now im only 20, and if its giving me grief 2 years after the original injury, then i am kind of worried that by the time im 40 ill be screwed.

   its on my right hand side quite low down, maybe one or 2 vertebrae below where my rib cage starts on my back?

   cheers for any advice

   Posted 15 years ago #

2. jpassmore
   Member

   Swiggy,

   Thanks for the detail, it will help get us started...

   It is only on the right side and local just to that spot on your back?
   Is in within the muscles just lateral to your spine?
   Probably looking at the L3 region...

   Do you have pain any other locations? Legs?
   Does pain increase more if you sit or stand for a long time?
   What makes your pain worse? Be specific?

   I hear what the NHS is saying, and I know you understand their reasoning...

   You are right in your concerns about your body in the future. If a joint or two is stiff at one spinal segment, and surrounding segments are picking up the slack, this can lead to potential uture problems, for example early arthritis.

   What stretches do you currently do? I have ideas for you, but wanted to see what your already doing?

   You could benefit from a qualified manual therapy trained therapist who could help mobilize the stiff segment or two and help break of that scar tissue.

   I have an idea for you on how to free up some of the "soft tissue" restrictions you speak of. It will require the use of another person. I will get into this after you get back to me. Question: are you on a medication for blood thining?

   Do you think there is a correlation between surfin the warm Indo waters and the cold water of the UK? Maybee, s short term solution is allowing better adequate warm up time prior to surfing and strething as soon as you get out of the water and when you get home?

   Look fwd to hearing back from you...
   Let Schizo on MSW know your thoughts... :)

   ~J

   Posted 15 years ago #

3. swiggy
   Member

   cheers for the reply, yes it is just in that one spot, its really quite localized, i could probably stick a pin in the bit that hurts if you know what i mean, i *think* it is just one particular muscle, i can isolate it by holding the vertebrae just below it with my thumb and bending backwards and twisting a little bit, that forces that muscle to stretch and it does actually ease a bit but it tightens up again straightaway, and sometimes stretching it like this can actually irritate it a bit more.

   my legs are fine, i have been to a physio and he did all those checks, seemed very sure i had just injured a muscle and it wasnt anything more serious. i would go back to him, the physio i went to see surfs as well, just i cant afford £40 on a regular basis being a student, and he seemed very unconcerned, pretty much told me id be fine, but it hasnt sorted itself after 2 years...

   im not on any medication, im otherwise a quite fit and healthy 20 year old, surf, skate, run and eat loads of fruit, vegetables, fish etc, which is why im a bit bothered that after 2 years im still getting problems.

   in terms of stretching, i do just a few general spine stretches, twisting, and i have a big inflateable excersize ball that i do some balancing and stretching on, i dont really do anything specific to my injury though, but just try to generally be quite flexible.

   i think the cold has a lot to do with it, being warm in indo loosens my muscles and just eases it up, i do try to warm up over here, probably not as much as i should do though, by warm up do you mean stretching or jogging etc. i thought stretching while cold was bad? is that right?

   haha theres always people who will critiscize (sp?) dont worry about it, theres a lot of abuse gets posted on msw by bored people, i appreciate you taking the time to reply to me.

   Posted 15 years ago #

4. jpassmore
   Member

   Okay, good to hear back from you...

   Besides some "scaring" or fibrosis present in an old injured muscle, you could also be dealing with some type of facet irritation. A facet, is a word used to describe the articulating surface between two vetebrae, other words to say loosley, a joint. In the lumbar spine, for example: There are articulating factets on each side (L and R), and superior and inferior. What I am saying it, perhaps (based on your descriptions) you could have some type of facet issue, where it never fully went back into place from the initial injury, and this followed with some muscle issues.

   How to deal with it?
   Options:
   Exercises- Lay flat on your stomach on a firm surface. Raise your L arm with your R leg, pause for 5-10 seconds, and then perform the exact opposite with the other side. Try about 10 reps total per side, and let me know how you feel. If it hurts more, STOP and tell me! I will progress you with this exercise pending your responses. Do this twice a day, if you have no increase in symptoms.
   STRETCH- try laying flat on your back and pulling both knees towards your chest. Does this pull in that area?

   Consult- A physio or chiropractor with experience in manual therapy mobilization/manipulation if the joint/facet is found to be hypomobile. A well trained individual, can isolate the facet(s) in question and increase mobility if they are found to be hypomobile.

   OR- Laying on your bed, with your left side near the edge, bend up your right knee, roll your legs and torso towards the left allowing your right leg now to straighten and go off the side of the bed, all while keeping your upper torso/shoulders on the bed. PLAY with this stretch, varying the amount of hip flexion in the right leg. This may be a self mobilization technique that you may find benefitial. IF it HURTS more, STOP and tell me!

   ORDER: Stretch, Self mobilization, exercise...got it?

   I have another idea in regards to treating the soft tissue issue taht your physio is leaning towards, but try these first and get back to me.

   IN REGARDS TO WARMING UP... Basically, before you go in the water, you need to increase the temperature of your body, then stretch. This will make your muscles more pliable for surfing. Stetching while cold is bad, but I would honestly say to jog a little, to WARM up. Do the stretch I talked about, after each session and before once you have warmed up.

   That is a lot of info for now, please write back to clarify anything...

   KEEP ME POSTED!

   ~J

   Posted 15 years ago #

5. swiggy
   Member

   Thanks for the response, ive just gone through all of those excersizes, i could feel the muscle kind of pulling a bit, but its not a bad pain. you know the kind of pain that you get from a massage on tired/stiff muscles, almost feels nice haha. doing the lying on my back pulling my knees towards me, i can feel it a little bit if i really pull hard, i think because i am quite flexible its quite difficult to really make that bit stretch if you know what i mean.

   i never fully answered your question before, just noticed, sitting/standing for long periods DOES make it worse, and sometimes i can tell if i stand for long periods i tend to lean slightly to one side, having a bit of a kink in my spine where the injury is, im sure this isnt good, when i think about i force myself to stand straight though..

   thanks a lot for taking the time to reply, steve.

   Posted 15 years ago #

6. jpassmore
   Member

   Steve

   Do you lean towards the "bad" side, or away? This info is helping me better understand your problem.

   Ease into that stretch and also try kneeling on all fours, then lowering your buttocks towards your heels while your arms and hands reach forward.

   What did it feel like with the leg/torso twist off the bed?

   You are welcome...
   Look fwd to guiding you more...

   ~J

   Posted 15 years ago #

7. swiggy
   Member

   Hi, ive just gone and stood in front of my flatmate, he said that there is quite an obvious kink in my spine, overall i lean away from the injury, but he could see where it was, when i forced myself to stand straight my spine was still curved at that point, so the rest is bending to compensate if you know what i mean.

   the twist off the bed definitely stretched that bit, wasnt painful but i could feel where it was stiff

   Posted 15 years ago #

8. jpassmore
   Member

   Swiggy,
   Try the exercises regulary and make a mental note how your body has changed after 2 weeks. Get back to me, and we will progress fwd. I have a few other ideas for you...

   ~J

   Posted 15 years ago #

9. swiggy
   Member

   ok ive been doing all the stretches, its probably a bit better but im not really sure, im still aware of it all the time, and im not properly stood up straight at the moment, my shoulders are above my hips but my back curves away from the injury a bit. it definitely gets worse if i stand up for a long period of time.

   Posted 15 years ago #

10. jpassmore
    Member

    Swigggy,

    This is something that truely requires in person attention. I am sorry I can no longer help you but I can guide you to finding a good physio...You want to look for some one who is Manually Trained. These types of PT's look for misalignments in joints , no matter the cause, and are often specific with interventions to correct them.
    Good luck and let me know if I can help anymore...

    ~J

    Posted 15 years ago #

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